I have been avoiding going to see an RE after 3 years of ttc because I just know that the ones I would see are pushy with procedures and don't do enough testings. I've done everything under the sun it seems except go to an RE. I saw an amazing Dr. who ran some unique tests on me and DH, I've done mayan massage, acupuncture, many fertility diets, gained a little weight, lost it, exercised and not exercised, gone to ob/gyn and had progesterone,FSH, thyroid panal, and ultrasound done, hsg, and DH has had 2 SA's
I just feel like everyone got tired of dealing with me and ran out of answers with the information they had.
I've seen a Chiro, Natropath, gyn, and integrative dr.
I feel like I know way more about what's going on than these "professionals". Is there someone anyone can recommend that I might like, like a nutritionist or something or just a reg. endocrinologist (even though the test's I've had reveal normal hormons)?
DH and I married for 5 blissful years I'm 28
TTC naturally since July 2008
Had normal female hormone panal via saliva, May 2010
Normal/great thyroid values (even though I don't feel like it)
T4 free 1.29 ref .82-1.77
TSH 1.440 ref .450-4.500
No BFP EVER
Normal HSG Dec 2010, DH great SA
Could have better adrenal function, but pretty normal
Taking omega 3, maca, licorice root, Sepia
FSH cd2 6.5
progesterone 12.02
endo lining at ov 9.07mm
It sounds like you actually should see an RE and see what they may have to say. Not all RE's are pushy and it bothers me a bit that you have an opinion of every single RE out there when in fact, you have not yet once met with one to discuss things. If what you are doing hasn't worked then why not pick another option and consult with an RE and be firm about what it is that you are looking for them to do and what you aren't interested in them not doing. I'll admit you will run into an RE that wants to go do an IUI straight away given your history but it will be your job to weed those REs out of consideration and find the right one for you. Have you had a saline sonogram yet? Have you had a hysterscopy yet? An HSG looks at your tubes and an u/s can only go so far. It seems to me you haven't had all the tests done yet. Do you know if you do or do not have endo? Not everyone has to have painful bad periods to have endo. I don't think you've yet possibly exhausted the gamut of tests that an RE might dabble into.
I'm sorry you're having such a bad experience at all of this. Please take my post with a grain of salt and I apologize if I have rubbed you the wrong way. I have heard some horror stories of REs here, just one the other day, but I am a little unnerved when someone will automatically assume all will push you into an ART procedure rather than do additional testing. It's not the case for all REs but you will have to work hard at finding the RE that is willing to work with you and what you want. The question for you is are you up to take on that work to find an RE for you and possibly run into a few bad one's along the way? I'd also say that there's OB, nutritionists, nathropaths, etc. that aren't willing to help you either or have given up on you so why not go out there and invest your energy instead to get an RE to take a fresh set of eyes on your case and help you figure out why you're having issues with getting pregnant? You've been waiting a really long time to have a baby and I am hoping you'll succeed while figuring out the root of your problems.
Me - 35 (the problem), DH -41 (great swimmers), TTC #1 since 11/2010
IUI #1 August 2011- cancelled, ovulated on tubeless side
IVF #1 w/ ICSI Sept 2011 - BFN
IVF#2 w/ICSI Nov 2011 - free all day 1 for FET later
FET#1 1/20/12 - m/c at 7 weeks 4 days
FET#2 4/24/12 - BFN
IVF#3 w/ ICSI & PGS under New RE - June 2012!
RPL/kayrotyping - reveals MTHFR A1298C heterozygous positive
Issues: unicornuate uterus (half of a normal size uterus and one tube), ovulation, short LP, polycystic ovaries
Mopie,
THanks for your input. I didn't mean all RE's are pushy, I just meant the ones around me are. I asked my GYN who understands what I want and she has visited with all the RE's around here for her own IF. I know there are amazing RE's but I just can't see us traveling hours and hours.
I guess I'm still willing to wait, since I don't want to see an RE.
Please forgive me in advance if my post seems a little bit in the "none of your business" range. I think I have read just about every post you have put up over the last year and I understand that you really feel that going to an RE is just not for you. There is nothing any of us can say to convince you that if you really want children, this is what you should do.
My question to you is have you and your partner discussed the possibility of adoption? We are starting to look into it now because we only have 3 lifetime tries of IVF with our insurance. We are far from settled from a decision but we know that neither of us can envision our future without children. It is just too sad to think about. If you don't want to consider any of the alternative pathways to getting pregnant, I really think you should put this option on the table. Maybe your child is already out there waiting for you. This is just my two cents and once again please take what I have to say with a grain of salt. I only wish for you the best and for you to have a beautiful end to this journey and to move on to an exciting new one, no matter how you choose to get there.
me- 31 DH-38 & 1 cocker spaniel furbaby
TTC#1 since 7/10 (23 cycles)
05/11- Lap and hysteroscopy. Stage II endometriosis and polyps removed.
5 Clomid + IUI- BFNs
#6 in progress
moving on to IVF summer 2012 with intralipid therapy for autoimmune response issues
http://www.tcoyf.com/members/mrsr1127/pccharts/19.aspx
ha! I feel like everyone moves on and no one remembers me! THanks...It's just hard to deal with IF when we are not willing to do too many invasive actions. We have thought about adoption and that's something we will consider more seriously when we are a bit older.
I always feel like "next month will be our month". I know lots of people who it just happened for no reason but luck it seems, after many years of IF. I'm always hoping my turn is coming up.
Plus, our insurance covers nothing to do with IF so that's another reason I'm trying to work around an RE.Thanks
Infertility is so lonely and completely frustrating. I too have read many of your posts and it feels to me like you are looking for a magic bullet or for someone to say the right thing to convince you that an RE is the "right" path. Only you know what is right for you.
Personally, I've seen an RE for testing only. Did he try to push ART's on me? Yes, but that's sort of his job "to get people pregnant asap at all costs", many RE's are wonderful at doing their job. I have not chosen to get treatment from an RE because I've found I prefer working with a naturopath who specializes in fertility, she's like an natural RE She also sees the need for RE's sometimes with their advanced technology and experience. She has just referred me back to the RE for a hysteroscopy next cycle to rule out implantation issues since everything else looks really good. I love that she sends me to the "pro's" when it is in my best interest. I feel confident that I'm doing all I can to get pregnant naturally.
Enough about my experience and on to my answer to your question
You say you've tried just about everything except the RE and that you don't feel any of the "professionals" you've seen have any answers for you. Why don't you take a hard look at all the things you've done and go back to doing the things you felt we're helpful and let the rest of it go. I know, I know, easier said than done; but for your own "sanity" stop looking for more answers, I certainly think you've already done everything under the sun except the RE route. So why not be at peace with yourself? Pick and choose to see the people who you've felt you connected with or you feel are helpful, exercise in a way you feel is helpful, eat in a way you feel is helpful and forget the rest of it. Stop trying to find "the answer", you are more than just a woman TTC, you are a whole person who deserves to be happy!
Me 39 DH 37 TTC #1 since July 2009
Chemical Pregnancy 10/21/2010
Last year of TTC, letting go and moving on without regret in 2013
Click on my bio to see a detailed timeline
My chart
I am all for the natural approach with infertility! An RE might be able to diagnose what the issue really is and then you would have a better idea of what technique is really for responding to those problems. No RE, or any doctor for that matter, can force you into any testing or procedures that you don't want. Most really feel obligated to get to the root of the problem so that they can treat you appropriately. They aren't going to throw ART at you without knowing everything they can about you, your cycles, and your history because ART isn't a cure-all. If there is an underlying issue that hasn't yet been discovered, any fertility treatments would be a waste of their time and yours. They want successes and diagnosis is KEY!
Maria-35 DH-42, 2 Sweet Boys and 6 Teeny Angels make that 7 Teeny Angels Waiting in Heaven .
Mrs-If you really have your heart set on a natural pregnancy then might I suggest two books for you to read?? One is called Inconceivable, the other is called The Fertile Female. If they speak to you, I highly recommend attending a workshop in Woodstock. You can read about that on the website called Fertile Heart. Things started to shift for me after I went and I really started to listen to myself, my body, and my heart. All the best to you.
Also - I don't know too much about this and am on vague on details but have you had all the auto immunity tests ran, perhaps even a recurring pregnancy loss panel might reveal something in addition to your DH and you having some chromosomal testing. But I'm more curious if you have actually had a hysterscopy or saline sonogram. An ultrasound hardly gives you any insight into the uterus and an ultrasound will never replace having these procedures done. An RE can help you with these two procedures and in fact, my OBGYN was the one that ordered up my saline sonogram.
I just wanted to pop in and question your DH's SA's. How detailed were they? Did they look for DNA fragmentation? Or could it be possible that you are ultimately "allergic" to each other?
I know you aren't saying all RE's push ART, but I just wanted to share my experience with my RE (fertility specialist here in Canada). All I want to do is move on to ART, but he won't even consider it until he has tested us thoroughly. He wants to make sure he has our issue figured out before he takes my $15000. I'm sure a small portion of this testing is to verify we are candidates for IVF so we don't ruin his success rates. He does seem sincere though, and for that I'm thankful. But I asked for help in February 2011, and we are no where near moving towards IVF or other options in January 2012 (heck, our follow up appointment isnt even until March 2). I digress.... I just wanted ot share that he is one of many RE's who search for the problem and don't push uneccessary procedures.
I wish you peace in your decisions. IF is all consuming and heartbreaking.
Me(30) DH(27) Married July 2009 At last, my love has come along. My lonely days are over, and life is like a song.
Last BCP May 2010TTC#1 since July 2010Charting since September 2010June 2011 - DH dx Oligospermic with Varicocele (not the problem)January 2012 - DH dx Azoospermic (hormones are perfect and no y-chromosome micro-deletions..yay!)January 2012 - TESE completed and no sperm found. On to DS.
My Charts
TheMrs: Mopie, THanks for your input. I didn't mean all RE's are pushy, I just meant the ones around me are. I asked my GYN who understands what I want and she has visited with all the RE's around here for her own IF. I know there are amazing RE's but I just can't see us traveling hours and hours. I guess I'm still willing to wait, since I don't want to see an RE.
Your GYN is not you. We each bring our own unique situations to a visit with any DR and the Dr esponds to us personally. I have an RE that some women think of as a terror. They love his partner. Frankly I think the partner is a jerk; he doesn't listen and could care less about the comfort of his patients. I saw him when mine was out of the country. They both get great results. There results are based on what the patient wants and them working together toward their goal not just their IVF/IUI success rates.. I choose to only go as far as meds if that was deemed necessary and an attempt at natural interventions failed. I was never pushed into anything. I was presented with all of the options and their percent sucess and I chose. It's all in how you present yourself. I agree with PP that you certainly haven't exhausted your testing options. I also remember your posts. We don't all choose to answer every post we read as eveidenced by the number of visits vs replies.
David Jude
http://www.tcoyf.com/members/dj-rayne/pccharts/default.aspx
Click HERE for useful tips and information about this site including linking your chart and directions to allow others to view it and HERE for abbreviations.
Have you thought about trying a different gyn? Some are more willing to run further tests than others and some have more experience than others.
I fully agree with dj rayne about your gyn not being you. I'm a little suspicious of a doctor who advises patients on their care based on the doctor's own infertility experiences because she is clearly not an objective third party at that point. It's completely unprofessional to discourage all of her patients from treatment that could potentially help them because she had a bad experience. This should NOT be about her. If she doesn't want to recommend a particular doctor, that's fine, but she should ask around to her colleagues and find you someone else.
As far as the testing that you've done, it sounds like you've had a number of tests over the years, but I'm wondering if you've had a full battery of tests on the correct days all in the same month? For example, going in on Day 3 for FSH, using OPKs and then going in for ultrasounds right before/after ovulation, again 7 days later for progesterone, ultrasound to look at your lining, etc.? This can be really useful for the doctor to look at a full cycle and tell you that everything is working correctly in conjunction with everything else. This is the biggest thing that an RE will provide you and other types of doctors/naturopaths/etc just don't have the technology for. In addition to the highest tech equipment, my RE also has a lab right there in the building whose only objective is to run fertility bloodwork, SA's etc. Everything gets handled very differently than at those giant lab testing places where most doctors send out samples for every type of test under the sun and where they are much more experienced at doing diabetes and cholesterol screenings than FSH, LH, E2 etc.
You can see from my signature that I went the ART route--and got pregnant! But I used to be very anti-ART too (I read all the books like Inconceivable and the Fertile Female, which are great by the way). I was going to see an RE just for tests and then take the results to a naturopath to help us. Turned out that no naturopath in the world could have helped us with DH's sperm count, and no urologist either. Given that I'm approaching 35, I was so glad I found out this information when I did and still had time to attack the problem with ART while I was still relatively young and my eggs were still good. But my biggest advice for anyone is that YOU are in control of your treatment. Nobody can push you into something that you don't want to do. But you can't be in control without all the correct information.
Me (34) + DH (32)
TTC#1 Since July 2010
April 2011 DH diagnosed varicocele and severe MFI
IVF#1: Sept 2011 / ER: 11 eggs, 6 fertilized / ET: Day 3, 2 transferred, 1 frozen --BFN
IVF# 2: Nov 2011 / ER Only 5 eggs, 3 fertilized/ ET: Day 5, 1 transferred, none to freeze--BFP!!!
My blog: http://whatinfertility.blogspot.com/
Thank you everyone, for your replies! I feel like I've never had this much feed back before. I've always posted stuff and I maybe get one or two responses...I'm am so grateful.
Lulu, that's amazing to hear it worked out for you!
Here's my full run down. I kind of always knew I would have a problem getting pregnant because my mom did too. She actually took fertility meds to try and get me but gave up and stopped taking them, and awhile later got pregnant with me.
We started trying 3.5 years ago, I went into gyn for a pap at 6 months of ttc and told her it should have happened by now, since I was doing bbt and checking cm. She ran a full thyroid panal and blood type and everything came back normal. She said I would have to wait another 6 months since I was still young, for the next step. After that, DH got his first SA, and his liqifacation was too high .30 is normal and his was 2++. He started taking supplements, changed to boxers and stopped hot showers.
About year 2 I went back to the office and had a consult with a male gyn and he just said he would put me on clomid and do an hsg.
So I started going to acupuncture. Nothing really changed, after going for about 4 months, so I stopped. Then I found a integrative GYN who I loved. She went straight to the point and explained things conventional medicine can miss and told me what tests I could have to figure some things out. I had a 29 day female hormone saliva panal done, neurotransmitters, and nutrient tests.
I started taking new supplements, changed my diet and things got much much better in how I felt. The tests revealed that I had too much progesterone (I was taking npc the month b4 the test) but my hormones looked good other wise. She said I was a strong ovulater because I shouldn't have been able to ovulate with that much progesterone. My other tests showed that I had weak adrenals and I needed to work on that. I also had a b12 deficiency. After 6 months I called her back, and told her that I still wasn't pregnant and she told me that I needed to get an HSG.
I found a new female GYN, since my old practice had only male MD's and I am not comfortable with males below the belt (lots of reasons, it's just my preference, I don't need to hear that there are amazing male RE's...) I really clicked with her. SHe was going through IF too, and she understood I wanted to do things a more natural way. I had the HSG and everything was "perfect".
I started seeing a ND and she really thought she could pinpoint my issue to several things. I started taking some homeopathic supplements and did some holistic therapies and some spiritual counseling. She didn't seem like she was in as big of a hurry as me and I ended up feeling like it was a waste of my time and money.
I read the infertility cure and Making Babies and thought I would try acupuncture again. I sought out a very experience acu, and DH did it as well to cure his liquifaction issues. DH had another SA and this time they tested for antisperm antibodies and that was negative but his morphology was a little low 25% instead of the normal 30%, I know this can change with each sample but that was the last one we had professionally done (I have a microscope at home). His liquifaction was normal.
After 8 months of acu, we decided to stop. I didn't feel any different, even though it did clear up many other aliments I was experiencing, nothing about my cycle changed (blood clots, pms, cramps...)
I did some biotesting at a chiro and they put me on vitex in which I experienced terrible anxiety and depression, just like the first time I took it...I respond to vitex very negatively and very fast.
I had day 3 fsh tested, normal, day 21 progesterone, normal and had an ultrasound to check my lining and to see if I had any abnormalities since I was complaining of a tugging feeling after O. She said I had a beautiful lining and great blood flow and my follicle was a normal size and that I was about to ovulate. After those tests, I asked her what she thought I should do, and she thought I should see an RE but since she has been a patient of most around here, she knew the only one I would probably be comfortable with is one that's 2.5-3 hrs away. She likes all the doctors, but most are male and the female that is more into testing and getting to the bottom of the issue before moving onto more invasive methods, and is willing to treat you in the pace and method you want to be treated only stays at that office.
She said she would try to learn as much about some of the unique testing I'm looking for and find a lab you can do the testing, but it might take awhile.
So, I would love to see a female RE who is willing just to do testing and not expect to do any ART. This is what I'm ready for right now. But I know beggers can't be choosers, so I'm not to the point of begging just yet.
On many other posts, I've always been trying to get down to one main question, what haven't I done that only an RE can do. You guys have been so much more clear about this in this thread!
If I were to see this RE, what other testing would she do, and would I had to have all the tests I've already done retaken? How much does this cost? I feel like and have always felt since our first night together that I'm allergic to his sperm! How do they tests this since I've heard they don't really do post coital tests any more.
If I see her would I need to tell her I'm from out of town, make sure DH can provide a semen sample and try to do things in one day? What can be done in one visit?
Sorry for the book!
Finding an out of town RE would be a stressfull and big committment. I'm a part of another board that mainly deals with infertility and I am so impressed the depths of driving women will go to see an RE that they are comfortable with and like. I'm talking hours and hours of driving some people do. It's about choices and personal decisions. You'll need to find out what choice and lengths you are willing to go. Since you are not interested in seeking ART at the moment (or perhaps ever) I doubt the amount of RE visits required for you to get help would be that many. You can easily schedule a consult and plan your work schedule accordingly. Use vacation time. Etc. Like I mentioned, many couples who are seeking the help of an RE make a decision and make it work, inconvienence and all. Some find a cheap hotel and make a romantic weekend of it. Some get up at 3 a.m. to make it to the REs office and head into work after wards. Choices.
I think I'm going crazy but I thought your signature the other day, after doing a double take mentioned something about endo but I don't see it there anymore...maybe it was a responder to your post? If endo is a suspected issue for you, that can and will absolutely impact your fertility. I'm not too all together familiar with infertility blood testing but there's some pretty basic standard procedures an RE would pull out of their tool belt to assist you with finding the root of your problem...or at least start from ruling things out. As I mentioned, an ultrasound doesn't tell you too much. When I had issues my OBGYN started out with an ultrasound. Then we moved on to a saline sonogram which tells you way more about your uterus than an ultrasound will ever reveal. This is a standard procedure and even my OBGYN was the one that ordered it. There's a hysterscopy which is also not an uncommon procedure. I even asked for a hysterscopy and endometrial biopsy from my RE and he performed it and it gave me peace of mind. And there's always the lap which is what RE's will perform if they suspect endo. A lap is the only definitive way to tell if you have endo and they would perform an operative lap if they were to operate and remove endo.
Take some time to process all of these posts you've been receiving here. I understand you have issues with male OBGYN's and you would also feel uncomfortable with a male RE. I can respect you for this and wouldn't persuade you to see a male if your comfort level isn't there. However, excluding male REs will limit the available market of potential REs for you to see. You'll have to work harder at finding an RE you're comfortable with but you can do this. Many of us believe in you and we want you to succeed on your own terms. Good luck and I wish you well and hope you are able to make good decisions that are right for you. I was listening to talk radio this morning and heard the host mention that making good and right decisions isn't always without pain. In fact, a lot of times doing the things you have to do in life are painful. You just need to be willing to make the decision and down down that path in spite of the pain.
TheMrs: I feel like and have always felt since our first night together that I'm allergic to his sperm! How do they tests this since I've heard they don't really do post coital tests any more.
I feel like and have always felt since our first night together that I'm allergic to his sperm! How do they tests this since I've heard they don't really do post coital tests any more.
May I ask what makes you think this? I ask because I have done a lot of research on Seminal Plasma Hypersensitivity. I have quite an extreme reaction to my husband's semen and I've received several medical opinions on what they each respectively *think* it is but I haven't been able to convince any of them to perform a post-coital exam. So I was just curious to know what makes you think you are allergic to your dh.
Me: 27-- Diagnosed PCOS January 2012. Taking Metformin until April 2012 when we will talk about having a Lap done if no bfp (RE believes I have mild endo).
DH: 29 First SA (3/11) showed 31% DNA Fragmentation, all other numbers look great. Second SA (12/11) showed DNA Fragmentation went down to 21.5%!!! Count, motility, and morph look great.
Married 01/01/08
TTC #1 since August, 2010.
Thank you Mopie....I am digesting it and talking to DH. I did mention that my TCM dr thinks endo is my problem, it's not in my signature though. I have lots of little clots in my blood, lower back pain and I get cramps relieved by heat...and I'm sure there is something else he feels and see's in my body. That's not what's in my gut though...
Lmw84 I guess I have always suspected this because I always thought "man, that would suck if I was allergic to my husbands sperm" and I don't think I ever knew that that was a real problem. First time Dh and I were together (wedding night virgins) after he "went" it burned like crazy! It did this while I was on birth control and stopped once I got off. So, I have no idea what that means. It occasionally still does but not as bad. I do a self postcoital sometimes and there are times when all the sperm seem to be frozen in my "crystals" of CM.
The Mrs- DH and I were wedding night virgins as well and after he "went" it burned like crazy for me too! That's what got me researching Seminal Plasma Hypersensitivity (see http://www.seminalplasmaallergy.org/ for more info). I don't know if that's what I have for sure since I can't seem to get a diagnosis. I have found that taking fish oil supplements daily greatly helps me to not have the response, though sometimes there is a flare up. I will tell you this- after telling my most recent doctor about this, he suspected endometriosis on my bladder. I still don't fully understand, but he said that there could be lesions on my bladder that are very sensitive to the prostoglandins in semen. It could actually be the lesions flaring up, causing pain in the vagina. To me, it's a backwards thought, but I figured I'd throw that out there since you have not had a Laparoscopy done to check for endo/lesions/etc. Can you explain the last sentence of your post? About sperm being frozen in your crystals of CM? If there is truly an allergic response or extreme sensitivity going on, it sounds like IUI could easily bypass the problem. I hope I don't come across as telling you what's best.... just thinking out loud here trying to help come up with the solutions!
When we BD, I will lay down for about an hour or 2 and get up, take a sample of our mixed fluids and when I use fertility friendly lube, supposedly aids in conception, I think my cm looks like ice chunks or crystals and I can see the sperm in the crystals and they are not moving. Maybe after that long they shouldn't be, but when I don't use the lube there are living ones still searching around, they go in and out of the crystals thinking "this is it!". I guess it makes sense to me because I'm looking at it! It's just a cheap little microscope, nothing high tech and I can't tell the shape or anything.
An IuI would be the most I would do, but I still want to have some testing done, well before I decide to go ahead with an IUI.
So if endo is an issue that could potentially solve your infertility equation. It sounds like you need a lap and for an RE to take a good look at your endo, clean out what they can and see where it is and how badly it is impacting your fertility. No matter how well your timing things, if you have endo you may never get pregnant without taking care of this issue. And like another poster mentioned here, you can have an RE additionally at some point put you on Clomid, if your inclined, and do a trigger shot and time intercourse in hopes of concieving. But cleaning up the endo it sounds like is potentially a major factor why you aren't pregnant.